tv Art of the Deal Roundtable CSPAN July 16, 2016 5:30pm-7:01pm EDT
>> michael cruz, what can we learn about donald trump from reading the art of the deal? >> we can learn a lot and we should. when you're studying donald trump and i think everybody at this point should be studying donald trump heard this is a foundational document. it sort of reads like a campaign playbook. first and foremost, what i think we can learn is that he is selling fantasy and he's doing that using hyperbole. those are his words, not mine. >> in fact his words from "the art of the deal" are i play to people's family fantasies. people might not think big themselves but they can get excited by those who do. that's why a little hyperbole never hurts. people want to believe something is the biggest and the greatest in the most spectacular. i call it truthful hyperbole. >> that's exactly what he is doing. he's not ashamed to say that's
what he does. i did write an article for the wall street journal and asked him if this was his play book hiding in plain sight and he first was a little taken aback and then he said it is automatic and it comes naturally to me so i guess you're right. then he said running for office, running for president, the first office he's ever sought is like the biggest deal in my life. so i called this the campaign by negotiation and you've seen that all the way through. right now as he's trying to get the gop elite and donors to come to his side, it's it's just a series of more negotiations. he does a little bullying, he does a little cozying up and sweet talking, all the things that are elements of the deal in this book. so this comes naturally to him,
it worked to get him to this point to be the gop nominee. we will see if it works against hillary clinton in the general election. >> when you read "the art of the deal", last summer, what was your reaction? >> my reaction was he is the deal. he's the pitch. it's all about the aura he presents whether he is dealing with politicians or developers or construction crews. he is his own deal. in this book, it's really sort of the foundational document, if it was a book in the bible, this is genesis. this is the beginning of trump. it was the first time i had read it and i read it because of that clip because he said we need a leader who can write "the art of the deal".
>> has he been consistent in his book and his behavior? >> i think there's a lot of him that were seeing today that you can see in this book. he says, for for instance sometimes we have to denigrate your opponent to succeed, to win and get ahead. we see not in the campaign, whether it's the other republicans in the primary or members of the press so i think he has been more consistent in terms of living up to what he says in the book. >> i think you are you are at that age. i think that's who he was. >> he also set the pace to be a little wild. there are lines in this book now, watching the last year this
campaign that just jump out at you. you are watching him be what he said he was in this book. the context of when this book comes out is pretty interesting. this isn't just a handbook, a way to to understand or try to understand, there's a point in the broader scope of his life. trump tower opened in 1983. it. it was his opening salvo and his crowning achievement. it made him a big deal in new york city and you can talk to this more than i can. this is what made him a big deal beyond new york city. and, such a big deal that the following year he started making a series of deals that sort of put him in a tight spot and hugely over leveraged him. he bought the plaza hotel, he
bought another casino in atlantic city, there was so much confidence coming out of "the art of the deal" and how much it sold that i think we can learn as much from "the art of the deal" and from what happened in the year following "the art of the deal", what he did with that confidence and some would say overconfidence. >> i think in a way, not to get away from it but his second book is called surviving at the top. it covers that. , it's the only book that is vaguely introspective that he admits that things aren't so easy in his business dealings in his personal life, he and ivana had separated.
then he writes the third one. he said in the introduction, don't pay attention to surviving at the top, my heart wasn't in that book. he's back and he wants you to forget that he ever wrote that. he said art of the deal and this third one, this is what you need to know. forget this other book. >> those three books taken together are surprisingly revealing. surviving at the top comes out in 1990. it's called surviving at the top. he wrote that when he was neither at the top or surviving, but what's in there is some of the most introspective stuff he's ever said or written. he's sort of vulnerable which is not something he likes to be not something he shows hardly at all. the art of the deal is the beginning of that trump trilogy. >> when he is out at rallies and
i've gone to many with him and traveled on his plane and then with him at his office in trump tower, the person he is at the rally is very bombastic, all the bravado that everybody sees day today. when he is in his office or in his ten house on the plane, he is more thoughtful. he's more composed and monies talking to other people and when i've spoken with him, he answers like a normal human being which a lot of people think he just can't be that. but he can be that person, however, to get him to be introspective is a little more difficult and i have tried to do that. i think he's just kind of beyond that. he doesn't look back. he's always looking forward. one of his statements in "the art of the deal" is i think big
and i push and i push until i get there. that's what he's doing right now. >> let's read that quote. i like thinking big, i always have it to me it's very simple. if you're going to be thinking anyway you might as well think big. most people think small because most people are afraid of success, afraid of making decisions, afraid of winning in that gives people like me a great advantage. >> one of the first times that i met his daughter on the campaign trail, everyone thinks that his adult children are pretty good kids. they are running the trump organization in his place. the first time i met his daughter, she said this quote to me my father always taught me if
you're going to be thinking anyway you might as well think big. i thought really, that's what he told you as a little girl and it's in his book. i talked to eric and he said yes this is how we grew up. this is what i heard. we knew this book. he didn't take us out to play. he took us to the office to play and we had to listen to this day in and day out. then the campaign staff has read this three times. everybody is reading it. when you say people are afraid of success, even though he is so successful, i would go to a rally with him and get out of
the plane they dubbed trump force one because it's going to be better than air force one because it has 24 karat old fixtures, et cetera, we get out and the first people in line are blue-collar workers. i would go up to them and i said why are you so crazy about donald trump. i just got off this goldplated leather seated plane and they said he understands us and, playing to that fantasy, he is going to make us better. he knows we need to be successful and we have a chance with him. he is playing to the fantasies and they think i'm not going to be a millionaire but maybe i can make $100,000 this year. >> i think it's worth pointing out that someone else who read art of the deal was mark burnett who had done survivor and then wanted to put trump into a survivor -type reality show which of course turned into the apprentice. without the apprentice he would not have been able to run nearly
as successfully for president. maybe you disagree - no, because he became a household name. everybody at these rally without exception had send the seen the apprentice. >> he not only became a household name but he was on that show portrayed as what he wanted to be seen as which is the ultimate boss. you can trace back even the apprentice to "the art of the deal", if not for mark burnett having read this book when he was sort of down on his luck and then thinking about "the art of the deal" when he sort of trying to come up with his next survivor. there is a line between "the art of the deal" and the apprentice and this campaign. >> you think you're going to pick this up and learn all this great wisdom of dealmaking but the points he makes he says go
for a home run with every pitch and you're going to strike out a lot that sometimes i settle for singles and doubles and after the trilogy of the memoirs, he wrote a lot of business advice books and even in those it was like pursue your dreams unless it's never going to happen. it's that kind of device for dealmaking. it's understandable but it's not always actionable. >> he writes in "the art of the deal", it irritates me that critics with neither design or web built anything themselves are given the opportunity to express themselves in major publications where the targets of criticism are almost never offered. >> he managed to carve out space to respond in social media and
many different ways. at the same time he is so dismissive of critics, and he's focusing on architecture critics, he cultivates them. he is very cognizant of the power of the press. he was obsessed with the architect critics at the new york times at the time of this book. this campaign has seen a lot of tension between trump and the press but this notion of him hating the press is sort of overblown and kind of a myth. he's very smart about cultivating the press. he's very clear about that in this book. he said look, i'd rather be written about nicely but the worst thing is to be ignored. even bad stories are good for business. >> you both agree with the.
>> yes so there is a theme line in this book and throughout his literature over the last three decades. in this book at pops up over and over again. he has a belief that there is no such thing as bad publicity. there is no such thing as bad press. he would rather get good press over bad press but bad press works too. all attention is good attention. he has not been wrong really in his public life. in 1990, the business pages are reporting on his looming financial catastrophe. the tabloids are reporting on the breakup of his marriage and his infidelity and it diminished him a little bit but he emerged stronger because of the attention into an even larger public persona. fast forward to the last year.
all of these things that should have killed him have not only not killed him but they've amplified this aura or persona of donald trump the candidate. >> i think in "the art of the deal", all the chapters after one and two are going through different transactions or things that he has accomplished. to me, the first one is a day in the life and the second one was called trump card, elements of a deal, and that's the one i went through point by point with him and i found even though the trump cards were about specific elements that he practices, i found they work expended lee in this campaign. to follow up on you, get the word out, be outrageous, be controversial and you will get attention. the ban on muslims, the
immigrants from mexico, attacking senator mccain as not worthy of being a war hero. every time he said that people would say he's dead in the water. no, the next week he got another 5000 people at these rallies that were attracting 20 and 30,000 people. he would do that. that's one element. the other thing he did, he mastered the use of twitter. it has has gone back to bite him a few times more recently but he was the first of the candidates to really exploit twitter and we've seen hillary and recent weeks trying to use twitter herself. so we will see if she will try to answer him on that. >> i think his use of twitter is just the latest social media version of what he's been doing. >> exactly. >> he's been doing it his entire life. they used to use the society
pages in the new york times and then tabloid and trashy tv comes in in the '90s and the intranet and then social media. wherever he needs to be in however he needs to exploit the media or the press, he has done that very ably and i think this is a little far field from "the art of the deal", but i think what we will see is whether he has reached a point where this level of scrutiny and level of seriousness is so high that this still works. his abiding belief that all publicity is good publicity, i'm not sure it will play out this way over the next several months. then again a lot of us have been wrong a lot of times are along the way. >> before we get too far, i want to show some video of monica langley and the wall street journal and if you would just explain what this is after we watch it. >> it seems to me your strategy
is hiding in plain sight. let's look at the first page of your book, what i highlighted. if you would just read a little of that. >> okay it's don't do it for the money. deals are my art form. most people are surprised by the way i work. i play very loose. i don't carry a briefcase. i try not to schedule too many meetings. i leave my door open. you can't imagine at the entrepreneurial ship, i prefer to come to work each day and see what develops and what happens. that's true. >> do you if we you become president, and you're doing so well to this point, do you think you can still leave your door open, be so loose or do you think that's going to have to change. >> it won't change as much as people think. deals are deals and there's levels of sophistication but it won't change quite as much as people think. >> when was that? >> that was at the end of february in virginia.
i sat down with him before he went out for a rally. we were in a little library and the interesting thing is, i gave him the book and i highlighted it. i gave it to him and i could see out of the corner my eye his staff was like what the heck is she doing. "after words" they told me if we would've handed him a book he would say what the heck, don't give me something to read but he did read it and he agreed with it. he still is very much like that which is why i wanted him to fess up that he's very much that way because i had been observing it about him and we all know he's so loosey-goosey out there and he likes to see and go with the flow and he became a master of that on the campaign trail, sometimes to his detriment but most the time to his benefit when he would read the crowd. he would react to the crowd. he was always doing that seeing what they were doing. one of the things, one of the elements of the deal in his book
is know your market and the market that he knew better than any other republican candidate was this market was angry, it was antiestablishment it was tired of being bullied around the world and viewed as being weak. he knew that market and he struck that court. >> there's a lot of insight into his management style which you are bringing up that is evident in "the art of the deal". he brags about how you can just get to him directly. in a lot of big businesses to get an answer you have to go through seven layer and it's all unnecessary anyway. the trump organization, you can come to me. you can answer me. the flipside of that is it's
micromanaging. but in a loosey-goosey way that the campaign has been run, he said i don't like a lot of number crunchers or eggheads or fancy market surveys. i go from the gut. >> no committees or consultants. it's all him. he will listen to people, to a point, but it's ultimately his decision. >> that's the way should be. it's the trump organization. i think were fast forwarding. i'm not sure how much that open door will work and that's a phrase that comes up often over the last few decades. >> you heard him say it's not quite to change that much if he were to become president. >> sometimes you need an open door but sometimes you need a closed door at the oval office. there's just too much stuff coming at you.
his business has, sort of's as sprawling as it is and it's become, it's something that he has been able to corral with his capabilities and i think the oval office will be a little bit different than the trump tower. >> he does run the campaign that way. just the way he has run the trump organization. he makes his own decision, if i were on the plane with him, when he would say we would land, the pilot would say were about to land and everyone would buckle up and he would write down six words and the points he wants to make. he had never had a speech, he never had a briefing book, nothing. he would come up with six words. one time i got my iphone and i just copied it. i said i'm going to copy it and i copied it and i attached it to one of my story spread he did it that way. remember his campaign manager that took him almost to the end until he hired a new one, his campaign manager wrote on his
whiteboard on the campaign office that said let trump be trump. that's what he did and that's what he wanted. >> there were long-time reporters and you're all familiar with the white house and the management of the white house and the press management and here's our message of the day, here's our message tomorrow , how much attention to that you pay question. >> does trump pay? >> no does trump pay? his loosey-goosey style versus managing a candidate, managing a president. >> something i've actually been thinking about and working on a little bit of late, the president is the president. there is no question who's in charge of the west wing of the white house. at the same time there is such a volume that is coming at you and such a volume of an porten, consequential things. to to sort of play it so
loosey-goosey and go seat-of-the-pants as he has done in many cases, for many years is dangerous and for previous president, it hasn't worked well and i've had to adjust. i'm thinking bill clinton who came in and preferred an open door and was sort of loosey-goosey in his own way and at some point they needed to say i'm the president and this is serious business and i need to make some adjustments and did. i think should he be president i think that is something that all of us should be watching for this management style has to work with mixed results for 30 years in trump tower, how would
that translate or not translate to the oval office. >> it's going to be hard for him to say, this is working, people are expecting him to make a pivot after the primary to the general. he's only pivoting, he's leaning into the same direction. >> still have to use the teleprompter a few times. >> i think it will continue when he gives the policy speeches. i was in his office a month ago right before he was about to use it and it was set up in the conference room and he had been practicing. he's trying to think that way. the people he brought in wanted him to practice a time or two and he's done it may be three times or so. >> i think it's going to be hard to persuade him and think that
he needs to change. no one thought, when he came into the race he was ninth in the poll and he seemed like this sideshow. he won. he beat the others that were supposed to be the most serious and most in-depth in a long time >> that sort of small collection of vice president but also talking to cabdrivers and workers in this street and people that he runs into and get sort of a critical mass of voices that allow him to make got decisions.
now i don't think a president trump would walk outside on pennsylvania avenue and start talking to people and then make a decision. it just can't work. there's a bureaucracy, all these things that a president needs to navigate in a much more complicated way than anything he has done. >> this was four years after trump tower. trump tower is a shining example of trump's management style of opening it up. the project manager was a thirtysomething woman and it was an interesting collection of people who made trump tower work. you see less of that as trump goes on. he sort of transitions from a guy who builds things, he built
trump tower from the ground up to instead a guy who puts his name on things. he's a genius level marketer and licensor but maybe a less disciplined manager. i think the trendline of his 30 plus years as the character he created as donald trump. >> in his business and perhaps if he were to become president, he does so outside the box with his hires and he does not bring in standard people. the person who is his social media guru, he started as trump's golf caddie. his press secretary, she was a ralph lorenz model that was brought in to work on his wife's line.
i think most people think she's been a fairly honest broker and i found out from the grown children that the guy who runs the las vegas hotel used to drive him to school. he does think outside the box because he used to grow up on construction sites and he had to work at the construction site. eric and don junior told me they had to work at construction sites since they were 11 or 12 years old. he does look at people in other things and isn't afraid to put them in the mix. i don't know if he can do that at a presidential level, but he has done some of that. >> he has put high expectations on people who are, by the book, underqualified. then if those people succeed, it looks, it looks great and if they don't, bye-bye.
he prides his loyalty over integrity. loyalty is the most important thing it's also why he is so loyal to family. there's nobody he is more loyal to most of the time then family. his brother robert, at least least as we see him in "the art of the deal" is a key component and now his three children that he has are extremely important in the trump organization. >> i have a very simple rule when it comes to management. higher the best people from your competitors, give them more than they were earning and give them bonuses based on performance. that's how you build a first-class operation pretty in my life there are two things i
found i'm very good at. overcoming obstacles and motivating good people to do their best work. one of the challenges ahead is how to use those skills in the service of others as i have done until now on my own behalf. there is the trump organization in the broader strokes and then there are other subsidiaries, some very large like atlantic city and i don't know that he overcame obstacles super well in atlantic city. he writes in the art of the deal, i love casinos in the glamour and the cash flow, it's, it's very good business being the house. yes. yes it should be and it almost always is but if it was kind of good for trump individually but for people who worked for him overall, it was decidedly less
good over the course of time but before we talk about the management gems that are in "the art of the deal", i need to bring some sort of corrective, he hadn't really experienced failure at the point. there are parts of his business record that have been the opposite of success over the course of time. >> he writes in here, i fight when i feel i'm getting screwed even if it's costly and difficult. there seems to be a sense of right and wrong in this book. that quote, plus the fact that he writes about helping that woman who was losing her family farm and he held a fundraiser
for her. she worked hard all her life and here she is losing her farm and it's just not fair. >> so what did he do. he described that and it's in the first chapter of "the art of the deal". he called the bank and said he wants to pay off her mortgage or something and they say it's too late. who knows how this conversation transpired but that's how he's describing it. so what does he do? he brings a lawsuit. that's what he does. i'm going to slap a huge loss lawsuit on you for murder because this drove her poor husband to kill himself. he immediately lashes out with his most standard weapon which is the lawsuit. in that first chapter he threatens a lawsuit and is being deposed and another one, just in describing his week. that's how it goes.
that combativeness that we are seeing in the campaign and that litigious net's and the the threat of litigation, it's very evident here. >> how has he handled critics over the course of the last year ended in this campaign? a playbook for that is in "the art of the deal" and that is one of the things that follows his inconsistencies. that is an absolute consistency. if somebody does something that he doesn't like, if somebody says something or write something he doesn't like, he goes after them. >> or the trump university litigation. he is hammered, hammered, hammered. >> to a fault, somewhat say. >> if he had settled this. >> he says i don't settle. >> which he does but he didn't settle this. the question i think is pending as we move into the summer and the general election, whether or
not that was the right move. if he had settled maybe we wouldn't be talking about it or we wouldn't be talking about it nearly as much pretty can't accept that he might have been wrong in this case and so it is a full assault on the judge and on down. anybody who is critical of how he handled trump university. >> he admits mistakes in this book. it's always in his failure to see how stupid other people were. that kind of thing. or i never realized, he was an owner in the short-lived alternative pro football league. his biggest mistake he said was that he didn't realize how weak the other owners were. those are the kind of mistakes to which he is able to admit. >> he chalks up the loss in the court in the nfl versus the u.s.
fl to the fact that the jurors almost took pity on the underdog nfl. it's just laughable looking back when most objective observers would say if there is one person who ruined the chance to be a secondary professional football league in this country it is donald trump. he is the reason the usfl didn't work. it might not have work just because the nfl is such a behemoth but donald trump is the reason the usfl didn't work when it didn't work the way it didn't work. >> when you read the art of the deal, did you find it to be accurate? did you find his descriptions of the deal to be accurate? >> selectively truthful, as a lot of people are, he is selectively truthful. >> i found it totally in character with the person i've come to know.
i didn't know him back then but i found it totally in character with his truthful exaggeration. he loves to be the best, show that he's the best, all of of that. i will say, because i look right about ceos and billionaires for the wall street journal, i think all the ceos and billionaires that i cover have some of donald trump and donald trump has some of them. they all occupy, they're all full of themselves. they have had to knock away competitors and think differently. one reason, when i first met him in august when everybody else thought he was crazy and had no chance, i went in his office and introduced myself and he knew who i was because he had read some of my profile letters. we got along and i said, look, i'm going to treat you legitimately because you are a
ceo and billionaire. from that point on i knew that i could work on a level playing field with him differently because i kind of knew the ground he walked and it is a little different. maybe has a little more ego work craziness but all billionaires, to some extent have these tendencies. >> when you look at a book like this, it should be fact checked but i think a lot of books, he was politically attuned and engaged but i think with a lot of memoirs and books like this with major public figures, they are propaganda. they are not meant to be a very detailed or honest accounting of
a life or career. i wouldn't limit that to art of the deal. i wouldn't limit that to any campaign time political books. they have very selective truths like you said. i would rather read this then whatever tim plenty's campaign memoir was spread this is interesting. >> early in the primaries when i was reading a lot of these books, i enjoyed "the art of the deal" relative to some of the other books by some of the other candidates which are just dreadful and this one is at least fairly entertaining - did you pick up why it's the trump organization and not trump incorporated? >> trump organization started when he was just donald trump he is just himself but he needs to be the trump organization to
start very early business deals when he had nothing to sell. >> it's all about the aura. >> i assumed it was some kind of business for malady. something why you call it one reason or another. >> it was marketing what he doesn't write in the book is that a huge part of his, he doesn't write about his father's connections there's no way donald trump would have gotten near some of the people he was
able to to start some of those early deal. >> at the same time, he distances himself from his father quite graphically in his book. >> and for good reason. we've seen this in the campaign. i am a self-made man. this is not just a campaign thing. this is something he has sort of over protested in my opinion throughout his public life. he is downplaying the role his father had specifically, politically and financially with, especially his early success. he could not have started doing some of the work he did on the grand hyatt and even into the early portions of putting together the parcels of trump tower. i think it would've been much harder without his father's influence. without his father's money and
importance. he's not necessarily a self made man. he is a self-created character. i think those two things sometimes get inflated in the publicity of donald trump. >> my father had done very well for himself but he didn't believe in giving his children huge trust funds. when i graduated from college i had a net worth of perhaps $200,000 most of it was tied up in buildings in brooklyn and queens. is that accurate? >> is that a full statement? >> i haven't researched that enough to know if it was true. >> i don't know if it was precisely $200,000 but i think we should pause and acknowledge that most people, i did not have $200,000 when i graduated college. that's a lot of money were talking about the 1960s. to say that as a defense that my father had only so much to do
with my success, my net worth was tied up in buildings in brooklyn and queens built by fred c trump, to say that as a defense for his self-made persona is sort of -- i think he learned a lot from his father from everything that he did in queens, but clearly he trumped his father by what he ultimately did. he learned a lot from his dad, he did get a break from his dad, no matter what the amount is. i never look to find out what the amount is but he did learn a lot. >> he says my father's the man who most influence it may. he doesn't want to diss dad in this family sense, but he doesn't want to create distance in a business sense. in the book and on the campaign
he talked about how his dad said never go to manhattan. stick to queens and brooklyn. he said i wanted to be big. he suggests, my dad taught me so much but even he didn't see what was possible. he didn't think big. >> the book is dedicated to his parents. fred and mary trump. it's not to his children. >> collective truth, there was a ton of money to be made using government subsidies and he took advantage of that big-time. those things had dried up by the time donald came around. what will he do but go to manhattan and take advantage of a very down economy in middle or late 70s which is really what locked this sin. there is an aspect of luck and
timing in addition to any sort of skill. make no mistake there are undeniable skills and his skill set. he has a full toolbox in terms of his ability to promote and especially at the earlier stages of his career, the ability to build buildings and understand what the public wants. >> here's a crazy fact, he actually, when he went through the new trump hotel that's going to be in the old post office in washington d.c., i was in it recently with him and he saw some molding and he was like that is cricket there. >> was it? did you follow up was it crooked or was he sort of showing to you how he's on top of things. >> he got the guy and he said was that cricket and they took it out and said well not really if you look at it like this and the guy was obviously feeling chastised. then he went to another room and
he said i don't really like the way this turned out but it's too late to change. the manager said yes, it's too late to change. he did, he does pay attention to details and we know he goes through all the things that go out on the campaign which is one of his elements of the deal, campaign. he ran the campaign for a total of $40 million dollars. jeb bush had $150 million in super pack or whatever. we know he looked at every single expenditure that when out of the campaign. whether it's paying attention to the details to construction or expenditures that go out from his business or campaign, he does do that. now he can't micromanage like that in the federal government so his argument is i'm a great businessman, read read "the art of the deal". i will manage the country like
i've managed my business. >> in the book, one of the early details is that he talks about how he had been in charge of the holiday decoration at trump tower. i remember reading, i thought who does that. he also explained why. it was like trump tower had an aura, it had a purpose and he wanted to make sure those christmas decorations. >> people who walk by. >> it is a manhattan landmark and crowds walked by right next to tiffany's. tiffany's as part of it. it is a big deal. >> he does get involved at that level or he's telling us he does get involved at that level. >> i see a mixture in this book and other books and real life if you will between i can't be
bothered big picture and like the smallest micromanaging, like the reef, particularly in my read in my reporting, he micromanage is the most when it comes to things that are very aesthetic and that's what we saw with that gold wreath, in that part of this book he says sometimes, not often, but sometimes less is more. >> rarely for him less is more. >> he talks about how he likes earth tones more than primary colors or i can't remember maybe it's the opposite. he is at that level of detail. when he's talking about how he would manage or who he might pick for a vice president, he has said he needs someone who really knows how to do stuff in washington because he sees himself more as the chairman of
the board. he sees the presidency as being the chairman of the board rather than the ceo or chief operating officer who's in there in the needy gritty getting his hands dirty. i think that's a fascinating transformation or fascinating way to say vote for me because i'm a successful business leader and see how that would work as president. sometimes you can be chairman of the board and sometimes you need to make the call. >> he says i know how to do deals. i can make deals with congress. the question is when he's made deals is usually with another person who also wants to get the job done and dealing with congress when there are so many different people with so many different agendas is going to be a horse of a different color for this man. >> he talks about how he doesn't like negotiating with the japanese.
it's because they always bring in a group of people. there's always eight or 12 people in the room and sometimes you can convince two or three people but it's hard to convince 12 people you have to convince a lot of people. congress has more than 12 people to suggest that i'm a great deal maker because i'm great at the one on one, that may be true but it is utterly inapplicable to the job he will face as president. >> he would like to truck them all in one by one. that's what he will do. >> monica langley, are you somebody who has access to donald trump, are you worried about the crossing him and getting kicked off the campaign campaign trail and list of access? >> no i'm not, if he decides to do that, what you showed was at
the same rally where the secret service was traveling with him and they did a chokehold on a photographer. they were supposed to get a cover shot for "time" magazine. because i was with him earlier we had good access and we weren't in the pan with all the reporter and we had video of it. the campaign asked us for the video so they could decide what kind of statement to make because everybody was like, your campaign, your secret service, it's not your job to put down the press, back guy was not a threat. they asked me for the video and i said you can get it when it's on our website. they were mad about that. he didn't like that. he's not like to several things that i've said and done or when i've called, i was the one who god and exclusive when he
decided to quit self funding the campaign. all the staff were saying he's still weighing the decision about whether to go get, go do fundraising like all the other candidates so i called him on his phone and i said donald, are you going to quit self funding. i could hear, he was was on speakerphone and i could hear them saying were still deciding it. i said donald, i'm talking to you. are you going to quit self funding and i said are you going to sell a building because it's going to cost $1 billion potentially. he said well monica, i'm going to quit self funding but i'm going to put a lot of money in it myself. so it wasn't like he was ready to say that or wanted to say that and i could pick them off but i knew i needed to get that because that was the next day and it ran against his brand. a lot of people are sucking up
to special interest but i'm not. the staff kept telling me to stay away but i just called directly and asked. he could've said leave me alone, i'm not going to talk about it or whatever but my first responsibility is the wall street journal and our readers, not donald trump. he knows that. i think if he felt otherwise he would not respect me. i think the whole time, if you think you're weak and he's going to nickname you and stuff like that i think you're dead. >> two quotes from "the art of the deal" and for you carlos, sometimes part of making a deal is denigrating your competition and i don't go out of my way to be cordial to enemies. >> i think he wrote it then and he has proven it during the campaign. it's certainly not limited to the press. it's insults to his primary
opponents, i think denigrating is a pretty good word for what we have seen. >> lying ted, crooked hill hillary, low energy jeb. he never got rid of that. >> some of them, talk about art, he does manage to capture something with this very juvenile nickname and he will say it's always a mess with hillary. >> people will say there's always a lot going on. >> i would wonder what a putdown nickname for donald trump would be. i don't know. he's very good at that. he's very good and he just repeats it over and over. low energy was his thing from
the very beginning. there was just this, it's like this macho thing. he is talented at that. he has certainly done that with the press. he has done it overtly with megan kelly. >> what's his current relationship with the washington post? >> he has severed the relationship with the washington post in the sense that he is revoking access to his events. that doesn't mean we can't cover him. we will continue to cover him aggressively. our editor who has gone toe to toe with the cabinet in the nsa issued a short direct statement saying this is a repudiation of freedom of independent press.
we will continue to cover him like we've done throughout the campaign. and were not the first. >> could you have predicted him doing that given some of the washington post coverage by reading "the art of the deal"? >> he really cultivates the press. he's always bragging about crowd size. in "the art of the deal" he bragged about how many reporters came to his press events. from this book i might've guessed that he would find ways to cultivate particular journalists and organizations rather than just shut them off. were certainly not the first. political has experienced this as well. it's not surprising because of
how aggressively he goes after enemies, but it is slightly surprising in that he seems to have a very interesting relationship with the press. cutting it off hasn't been a strategy that he's really employed in the past. >> in "the art of the deal", he writes that he doesn't take critics to seriously unless and until those critics get in the way of his objectives and right now i think you're seeing that with the press, not just with the post. politico, new york times, usa today, lots of places. they. they are his enemies now. there critics and they are literally in the way of him becoming president because there are months more, the amount of resources that have been put onto the donald trump beat has been unprecedented.
what has changed is the context in which the man in this story ships. for a generation he has been famous. he has been famous for a long time. he's never been important. maybe you disagree. he's never been important. now he's very important. he is hugely consequential. he is a man of the global importance. now because of that i think he is being covered in a way he has never ever been covered, not even close and it's starting to make him uncomfortable. i think he judges accurately that this is problematic. if the coverage continues this way, which it well, it will eventually put him in a position of weakness which is the position he hates. >> there was no twitter in 1987.
there was no way to directly address the crowds that you wanted to reach. >> there was no around-the-clock cable either. now he can dominate cable. yes you can call into any show. cable is desperate to have him on. now hillary clinton is trying to play that game. in the last week, every time he goes on, she goes on. same thing. she starting to call in. she's going onto twitter. when he would say something had, she would say delete your account. it was the most read tweet by her when she responded directly to him. so we'll see if she can go toe to toe with him and if it's the right thing for her to do. >> from the art of the deal, one thing i learned about the presses that they're always hungry for goods tori and the more sensational the better. it's in the nature of their job
and i understand that. the point is that if you are a little different or a little outrageous or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you. 1987. >> this question that we've been discussing, we in the media and beyond, for months at this point, did we because if there is a week, did we create donald trump? >> no if are talking about donald trump, the presumptive republican nominee, the republican voters created donald trump. republican lawmakers who endorsed him created him. the media media did not create him. but if are going to talk about the media role in the creation of the candidate, that conversation cannot start in june 2015.
fifteen. it has to start in 1976 know we can talk about twitter and how he's use that very effectively. we can talk about how much he has unbroken speeches on cnn and fox but before cable and before twitter it was people magazine or page six or playboy. he has always identified away to have a certain omnipresence in different type of media and a less serious media i think what has happened over the last 25 or 30 years is that there is less of a disk tension. people used to draw that distinction and there were two separate donald trump's. there was celebrity celebrity donald trump on page six and people magazine and then lifestyles of the rich and famous and then there was
atlantic city donald trump, trump tower donald trump being covered in the new york times. what's happened happened now is that it's all just content and stuff. he has used that reality to create confusion. people are already confused and he takes advantage of that. >> he was one of the first rich and famous to be featured. he may have been on the first show. he has been, as a business later he's been saying this longer than bill gates. he's been saying this, i think of any living business leader, his run of fame has extended as long or longer than any of them. it's not just been in business. it's the whole trump persona. i think that's a smart way to look at it. if that's the case, it goes back far longer.
>> okay, i remember as a young kid in the midwest learning about donald trump through an ice rink. did that make his national reputation? >> my daughter was born in new york city and i've lived there for many years but it's a perfect example of him to show success because it was a nightmare. it never worked and then he took it over and made it a success in months, not years and it was my daughter's favorite place to go as a toddler and child. it shows government gridlock, it shows he's a can-do person. it is a classic trump success and it's tiny but no one there
he brings up all the time. >> he brings it up in just about every book he writes. >> my daughter who is now 17 will say it's her favorite park in central park to visit. >> it is a simple story with a simple story line. yes it was a success but it is so small potatoes compared to some of the other things that he has done and what so many other people have done. it is this very straightforward tail of the success in private enterprise of the private sector and he has milked that 1986 for all that it's worth. >> when i see him talking about that story, it's in some so many
other books. i remember when mitt romney would talk about the olympics. yes, that was a big deal. it was a bigger deal than the skating rink. after a while it's like you can't hang so much on that. that doesn't prove to me that you would be terrific at other things. but, people love the olympics and i love ice-skating rinks. it's like this morality tale. he hated the mayor and he shut him up. he loves writing about it. >> he also writes about television city. what is television city? >> television city, well, what it would have been is a plot of land on the upper west side and you can certainly. >> guest: this, he had options on it not once but twice but he never really did close to what he wanted to do initially with
one of the first plots of land that he had in the 70s. he was trying to get mbc to stay in manhattan and he was trying to get it moved out to his new trump branded city within the city but it never amounted to the variety of plans that he laid out over the course of decades. >> the way he talks about trade deals, they're going to go to new jersey. that's what he kept saying. if he didn't get what he wanted then new york would cease to be the media capital of the world which was not, last i checked has not occurred. >> in the second grade donald trump writes i actually gave a teacher a black eye. i punched my music teacher because i didn't think he knew anything about music and i
almost got expelled. has he ever talked about the story since then? >> this was hyperbole. this was not a thing that actually occurred. was he a difficult child? absolutely. he also discusses something that other people have confirmed, his brother, brother, building a tower out of blocks when they were boys and then using roberts blocks as well and gluing them together so all of the blocks would be donald's blocks in the form of the building. that admits the reality that he was a difficult, confrontational child and as a teenager was sent to a military academy by his father but i'm not sure we've ever been able to confirm the punching his second grade
teacher in the face story. >> that would be great to find the second great music teacher. what's interesting is that the story, he says i'm not proud of it, but he is proud of it. it just shows from a very a very old age that i wasn't afraid to tell it like it is. the controversy over the ben carson memoirs and did he or did he not stab someone in trump made a big deal to say how it couldn't be true and if it was true what kind of person brags about this. it's just odd that you're in a situation where things that you do as a kid you wouldn't really be proud of but becomes these points of pride because it shows your unconventional and you tell it like it is and you're not afraid to voice your opinion. it's memorable. it's a memorable detail, whether it's entirely accurate. >> this was 1987. a lot of superlative in this book. it's like listening to a donald trump speech.
he uses a lot of superlatives. also, losers. the losers are the people who are jealous of you. he goes back to fame and success and you get all the people who are jealous of your success. i call them the world's losers. a lot of the same rhetoric, it hasn't changed all that much. >> so there has been consistency. >> he gets into it more later in the trump literature. this becomes more of a theme, this idea that the world is a zero-sum place for me to be a winner and the other guy must be a loser but you can certainly see the groundwork for that worldview in "the art of the deal" and certainly he has taken that into the campaign. for me to win systematically or
chronologically these other people have to lose. i'm going to target job and he's going to be a loser and then ben carson and marco rubio and on and on. for me to win you must lose. there's much more of a sense of competition than there is of collaboration. >> i think in "the art of the deal" you can tell he's an avid competitor and he does use the word loser in art of the deal. for example when ben carson rose up to be almost number one with him or surpassed him for a week, he decided on his plane, i'm taking him down today, tonight. that's when he went onstage and talked about the belt. how could carson, as a child, which he said in his autobiography have stab someone and the belt buckle stopped it from actually penetrating the other child.
he said that just couldn't happen. it was the first night that trump had secret service. he said somebody come bump stage with a knife. does somebody have a knife? i want you to try to stab my belt buckle. it won't prevent it. it will flip over and the knife would go in my stomach. the secret services down there like this. he said, either he's lying about it or he has these tendencies that should make him incompetent to be president. he would, and decide i'm i'm taking this person next. it is a one-on-one situation and there's a collection of people splitting up support in making easier targets than hillary clinton. >> monica langley you said you called him on his phone in his office or on his personal phone, are you still able to do that
given how close we are to the conventions? >> yes i can still get through. i think his schedule is much more precise when in the beginning most reporters didn't care to get close to him and i was doing a profile of him early on. if i need to i think i could still get him. i was in washington last week speaking at the state form and that's when i to word the old post office building that's becoming a trump hotel. i still try to keep in touch. i'm not one of the reporters that is on embedded with him. we have other reporters who cover him on a daily basis, we usually do page one feature stories so i don't try to follow him every day.
i just try to jump in occasionally. but you know, we have tried to do other stories as well. is he really worth what he says he is. we did a big piece that said this is what his income really is and he couldn't sell fund even if he wanted to. we've done stories about how he did not pay all his bills or he kept extracting concessions from people that he didn't want to pay full amounts for. we will continue to do that. i do agree with you that the press is now going to get much more vigilant about what has been his practice, not just what he says, but what he does. >> i also think this war on the press, as worrisome as it is, it's a little trumped up because as we discussed there is this long-term relationship between the press and trump.
i think in the case of politico or the post, he is going to re-credential these places if for no other reason, the story has to turn a little bit a little bit to the extent that he's thinking about this as an ongoing narrative, which i think he does. at some point, you will say okay, okay, come back in. >> if you were hillary clinton, would you read this book? >> absolutely. or i would get someone to read it and tell me what's in it. i don't know if she has time. i think it reveals a lot about him in the same way, more so than any other subsequent books do it's the same with hillary clinton. the best book to read about her is it takes a village. it's the one that most clearly, not her memoirs, but this lays out her political ambition.
>> when he decided the other night, she said it still takes a village. just the way he keep citing the art of the deal, she keeps sighting it takes a village. they both cling to their original books. i do think people who want to know the heart of these two candidates, they are going to be picking in november, they could read the original works and found out a lot about them. >> i think people should read not just hillary clinton and her staff but all people should read "the art of the deal". every voter should read "the art of the deal". if they have time, they should keep reading and do it chronologically. not the book caesar written but the books about him, i would say there are six very good worthwhile biographies. or if you don't have time or the inclination to read entire books their noodles of profiles on donald trump starting with wayne
baratz work in 1979 and vanity fair 1990. it's not that trump is not known. all of this is known. he has been a public figure and people have been reporting on them and not just in fluffy celebrity ways at all but for decades. put it into google. the way i see it, it is your homework as an engaged citizen between now and november 8. >> i can tell you, going, going to a lot of these rallies, one of the elements of the deal in chapter two, the last chapter is have fun. i have seen donald trump have fun. he does have fun at the rally he goes in the rope mind and
sometimes he spends 30 minutes and the rope line where people stand and talk to him. his favorite people to talk to are the people holding "the art of the deal". there are so many people that say please sign my book. he signs every dime book. more than a hat that he makes money on, more than a a sign is "the art of the deal". he is proud to say it's probably the number one best-selling business book out there. >> is that true? >> i think the tampa bay times did a whole look at this and found that it was maybe the fifth or sixth which is still pretty good how to make friends and influence people by dale carnegie is still by far the best-selling business book. >> i like what you're saying about fun. i suspect this is the most fun he is going to have in this process. i think he says in this book, it may be in one of the other two
trilogy books, he says that what is really about is the chase. the same things that excite me in the chase often, once they're acquired, leave me board. >> the important thing is the getting, not the having. i think, does he want to win question absolutely. he'll write another amazing campaign book and i'm sure will learn all about that but the notion of having to run this thing day today as president, i suspect it's a lot less exciting to him than winning it. >> a couple months ago a friend of mine interviewed a political consultant for trump and they asked, does he want to be president. i thought it was really interesting how he answered. he said he wanted to win. >> i've never understood how
jimmy carter became president. the answer is as poorly qualified as he was for the job, he had the nerve, the gods, gods, the balls to ask for something extraordinary. that ability above all helped him get elected president. >> donald trump is exactly the same way. it's all about having the balls to do anything. that's why said, if any reporter shows weakness to him, i approached him as an equal. i think we all have to do that. i have seen network anchors are correspondence come to him and stumble and he says spit it out and he moves on. he has no tolerance for being nice if you're not strong. he is just all about being confident and moving on.
he comes from a position of strength. you have to show strength. his children, when they come in the office they say we need to do this, this and this. i've seen the kids come in and say i need you to meet with so-and-so about this deal. they're not saying what about this or what about that. >> after jimmy carter's presidency he asked donald for a donation and that's what impressed trump. that he would have the guts to ask for a large amount of money. at the bottom of that page, he says about ronald reagan, i
think americans are starting to catch on that he's just a smiling pretty face and there's not much going on. i'm i'm paraphrasing. he is not kind to ronald reagan, the sitting president in 1987 in the in "the art of the deal" which should be pointed out in the context of what he says about jimmy carter as well. >> this is not a great time in the reagan administration. in the subsequent books, he gets religion. he can talk about how terrific reagan was. in his foundational document, he is not a fan. he he thinks he's an empty suit. >> it comes out right before, right around the same time he kind of talks about running for president for the first time in late 1987 he went up to new hampshire and did a speech at a rotary club, at a restaurant and did it because he was asked to buy gaia new hampshire hampshire who wanted him to run for
president. it was someone who was going through some low-level formal process to draft donald trump it i don't know he had ever really thought seriously about running for president at that time. i don't think he was then in 1987 but he knew he had a book to move and it was coming out so he went out and gave the speech and no doubt it helped move some products, as did in september of that year and add he posted in the new york times and the globe and he was criticizing american foreign-policy. he said a lot of the things he said in this campaign. all of this was injected into the political bloodstream in 1987 which then elated people to the next book, "the art of the deal". >> is kind of done that over and over camper and he sort of flirted with running and there was always something to pitch at
the time whether it was a book or a show. >> did you know six days after romney lost, he filed for the trademark make america great again. he was so convinced then that he could've done better. now course romney is out there talking and convinced he could do better than trump. i'm thinking about people he praised in "the art of the deal". he praised sylvester stallone. for creating these characters. what did he create? rocky and rambo. so i'm predicting as the republican convention sylvester stallone make an appearance.
i don't know. i just just think these type of people he wants to bring pizzazz or showbiz. part of being a celebrity is being in proximity to other celebrities. the pictures in this book as well as every other book, they are filled with pictures of donald trump with other celebrities. >> the resort second home or whatever number of home in florida that trump has, not in this book but in other books, he talked about everyone that he has down there and michael jackson and lisa marie presley, he was there. he talks that having dinner with sinatra. he claims he doesn't like going to parties but he loves being in the party scene and being seen with famous people because he's not just a business executive.
he's not just the politician per he's all those things. he's kind of been this sort of exaggerated version of every big thing in america for the last several decades. in the 70s he was partying in the new york club. in the 80s he was becoming really rich. in the '90s he had financial struggles and family issues. everybody was having affairs in the '90s. and that then he was a reality tv star. every obsession in america, he has captured it. >> recently in the washington post carlos you had a piece recommending two novels or two books that could be today. >> this thing that you're seeing a lot, journalist writing, it's
always been in very on brand way that proves they were writing in other ways. what you are seeing are people referring to movies and fiction. here's the movie that foreshadowed the rise of trump. what struck me were people referring and saying it can't happen here and it showed oddly charismatic strongmen coming into power in the united states. it's very oppressive. i wanted to see what there was there. i watch this weird movie and we see glimmers of the appeal, i can't remember what primary, maybe it was after arizona, he
said i love the poorly educated because he had done so well in that demographic. in those books, the leaders leaders that become these kind of totalitarian figures really had strong appeal among what we would now call low information voters. you see some parallels in the combativeness with the press to the point that there's this expectation of coverage otherwise there something wrong. these are sort of, they go much further than donald trump whatever go or you think he would. they are are these interludes in history. in sinclair lewis, what happens, excuse me in the plot against america, charles lindbergh comes to power and he runs the country
horribly for two years and then disappears and then comes back and everything history picks up as we know it. i was looking for inspiration in fiction and i think there's certainly elements there that you recognize in trump's personal style and rhetoric and his appeal to the audience that he seems to know so well. >> perhaps the most important thing i learned was not to be overly impressed by academic credentials, trump said. it didn't take me long to realize that there was nothing particularly awesome or exceptional about my classmates. let's go back to where we started.